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Postby Rick Dangerous » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:10 am

I have been gaming and collecting since the late 80's. I have a few hundred carts in my collection; and a few hundred discs. I have noticed lateley that disc are a lot more fragile and prone to failure than carts are. Also optical media drives have a lot more moving parts and a limited life span compared to solid state devices. I have theorized for some time now that people will still be playing Atari 2600 carts on original hardware long after the last working Playstation 1 has died.

Obviously the benefit early on with optical media was the huge amount of data you could fit on them, but with 64 GB Switch carts on the horizon, this is diminished. I guess what i'm saying is that i've arrived at the conclusion, after 3 1/2 decades, that i prefer carts over optical media when it comes to collecting, mainly for their sturdiness. They are built to last. This is why i think people are snapping up Vita carts like crazy while they last, and why Switch versions of LRG releases are generally preferred to PS4, even though PS4 has the graphical edge.

Just putting this out there; what are your thoughts?
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Postby Best1989 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:28 am

Yes, I prefer carts. I think that's one of the reasons why I'm so fond of portable gaming.

While that doesn't stop me from buying PS4 games or skipping Switch releases, I see it as one of the justifications why I usually get the Vita releases instead.
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Postby Aggie Tsubi » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:30 am

Discs are more fragile than carts, no argument there. As far as collectibility goes, I do like that disc-based games often take up less space. A loose NES cart takes up about the same amount of space as a complete Dreamcast game. When you add in the packaging for cart-based games, forget about it. Complete NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, etc. games eat up a lot of shelf space. That's why I've never understood people who love those huge longboxes for US Sega CD, Saturn, and early PS1 releases. They totally defeat the advantage of a disc being a relatively small, thin thing. I like the small cases for Japanese GameCube games too. I wish we got those rather than cases with the same dimensions as PS2 and Xbox games. The small size of Vita cases is one of the reasons I enjoy collecting Vita games. If they came in much bigger cases, I don't know if I'd be collecting so many of them (it's hard enough just to find room for my LEs). And of course, Vita has small, expensive proprietary memory cards, so if you go all-digital, you run out of space fast. Buying physical Vita games cuts down on your memory usage a ton. PS4 offers no such advantage because every game, whether physical or digital, installs fully on the system and doesn't run directly off the disc.
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Postby Fries » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:15 pm

Aggie Tsubi wrote:PS4 offers no such advantage because every game, whether physical or digital, installs fully on the system and doesn't run directly off the disc.

There are some advantages in that, namely faster load times and less wear on the disc for future use. Thankfully the durability and data integrity of Blu-rays are improved in just about every way from the CDs and DVDs of the past, so they should last quite a bit longer - probably beyond our lifetimes, hopefully.

That said I don't really have a preference between discs and carts... well, aside from disc rot being a concern from early printed discs along with the issues alluded to above. I should say I don't have a preference between modern disc based solutions compared to modern carts; I can't say, for example, that I like all the incarnations of carts inherently better than discs, because there were some growing pains on both sides. These formats have seen numerous improvements over the years and both have presented advantages and disadvantages throughout their decades of use in gaming.
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Postby Rick Dangerous » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:26 pm

I mean bad carts do happen...very occasionally.

With discs it's so hit or miss. I have many 20-30 year old discs that work just fine, like new; but then the tiniest scratch will ruin another, or i'll find one heat warped or rotted for no particular reason. It worried me as a collector; because if i've got $200-$400 tied up in a Saturn game; I don't want it to self destruct on me. I trust carts more to not do that.
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Postby Dr. Robotnik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:32 pm

I am kind of in the same boat. Before Switch, I was doing PS4 over Vita, even though I knew the Vita carts were more safe choices. The problem with Vita however, is the fact its still a dedicated handheld system, and I was worried that features like local multiplayer would not be possible with that version without another copy of the game, as well as stuff like graphics/performance degrade compared to PS4, incompatibility with PSTV, etc. Thank god for the Switch however, as that is my go-to platform of choice for any multiplatform titles now.

But yeah, I have trouble dropping over $200 on discs, but I will go up to and over $1000 with carts. Part of me wishes optical had never been created and cart technology had just more development put into it over the decades till we got to the current point we are at now. One advantage I always loved about carts, was the ability to essentially push beyond the limits of the hardware they were running on, with stuff like extra chips or even controller ports, plus good old internal battery saves before hard drives.
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Postby kupomogli » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:20 am

I'm not sure if disc rot is a myth or people just need to take better care of their stuff, but I've never experienced it. With PS1, I'd rent a game that had scratches and at times they'd get stuck in an endless load, but when purchasing games, usually I'd only buy mint condition but I'd rarely consider a slightly worse condition depending on the rarity and quality of the game. None of the games that I own on the PS1 have ever had an issue loading. My personal copies. This is the same for the PS2, although just like PS1, there have been rentals that have loaded up the PS2 memory card/disc boot screen rather than loading up the game when turned on.

However, the above can be said of NES games that have never loaded up, games that I own that I've never been able to load up. I bought them used, got them home, and they wouldn't work. The difference between discs and carts is that you can atleast tell if a disc is in good condition when you get it, you might have a roach infestation in a cart and have no idea until you open it up to clean it.

The PSP system itself had motor issues that wouldn't allow the system to run any games from the disc, but the discs themselves never had issues, even a friend's discs who weren't in nearly as good condition because he didn't care about the condition when buying used. The thing about the PSP is that even though I can't play any of the games using the discs themselves, I have no problem playing a pirated copy of the same game I own using CFW, so I'm fine.

Honestly, I care about the games. I don't care if it's cart or disc, I care about the library. The PS Vita is a card but I absolutely love my PSP and the Vita is one of the most disappointing consoles I've ever owned. I also love my 3DS and DS. I'll be able to play all of these games even if the consoles quit working because emulation. Playing a pirated copy of a game on my PSP of a game I own doesn't change the fact that I own the game itself. Playing an emulated SNES title on my PSP doesn't change the fact that I, well... likely don't own the game, but perhaps I do, I do own a lot of SNES games I like, but I emulate a lot I like but don't own(I'd own more but with how expensive SNES collecting is now and how good fakes have become, I'm not taking the chance, and I don't live in an area where there are a lot of classic game stores that will let you open up the game and see if it's legit.)

It's cool playing these games on the original hardware, but if I own the games, I don't much care how I play them. As for current gen, PS4 has more exclusives than the Switch, it gets more multiconsole games than the Switch and Xbox One because it receives nearly everything the Xbox One gets and it gets nearly everything the Switch gets while most of what the Xbox One and Switch get neither of the other gets. I would rather have the large majority of games be part of the same console, especially when that same console is going to have the better versions.
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Postby shinoff2183 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:58 am

I could see for instance with older disc but these bluray disc are fantastic imo.
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Postby StormJumper » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:14 pm

Vs each other here some dings..

Cart.
1. Smaller
2. Portable
3. Can update to them
4. Smaller case
5. More eye pleasing

Disc.
1. Massive Capacity BR
2. Needs bigger console to play them
3. Can't update to disc - requires HDD/SDD to store updates and saves
4. Water resist
5. Massive case

Bad

Cart
1. Easy to loose
2. easy to step on "ops" crunch
3. Water resist to certain point *no drowning test please*

Disc.
1. Frisbee anyone *catch Fido* ops wrong disc
2. Can snap on a bend
3. Easy to make coaster
4. Larger case takes up more space


Maybe more if so I add them but this comes from a quick gleaming here.
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Postby shinoff2183 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:32 pm

StormJumper wrote:Vs each other here some dings..

Cart.
1. Smaller
2. Portable
3. Can update to them
4. Smaller case
5. More eye pleasing

Disc.
1. Massive Capacity BR
2. Needs bigger console to play them
3. Can't update to disc - requires HDD/SDD to store updates and saves
4. Water resist
5. Massive case

Bad

Cart
1. Easy to loose
2. easy to step on "ops" crunch
3. Water resist to certain point *no drowning test please*

Disc.
1. Frisbee anyone *catch Fido* ops wrong disc
2. Can snap on a bend
3. Easy to make coaster
4. Larger case takes up more space


Maybe more if so I add them but this comes from a quick gleaming here.




If your talking cases, the ps4 cases really arent much bigger then the switch cases. Its about an inch and a half. I dont really see the negative in that.
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Postby Best1989 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:40 pm

StormJumper wrote:Cart.
1. Smaller
2. Portable
3. Can update to them
4. Smaller case

Looks at Neo geo AES carts.

StormJumper wrote:Disc.
2. Needs bigger console to play them
4. Water resist
5. Massive case



Looks at PSP UMDs.



Something that I like about Vita and Switch cases is the cute factor. I mean, collections of games for those systems look better than PS2/3/4 ones, imo.
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Postby stiggsen » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:51 pm

StormJumper wrote:...
Cart.
3. Can update to them
...

I am relatively sure no current game cards will store any updates in themselves. They are not writeable afaik.
At least my vita and switch games store the updatefiles inside system memory or external sd card.

Am i wrong?
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Postby panzermanathod » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:02 pm

I have a bit of a preference of discs but otherwise, I'm fine with either one. Granted without flash cards or the like this is hardly much of a challenge.
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Postby BuraddoRun » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:48 pm

I remember when I first got my Playstation that I thought discs were so futuristic and cool. I've always liked looking at the colors that reflect off discs in the light. I think the fear of disc rot, though I haven't yet encountered it, made me prefer carts in recent years. Also, fingerprints are usually invisible on carts and annoying to have to wipe off discs. But, discs take up less space and are sleeker. Well, I guess that's not true NOW, so much, but they still seem that way to my brain. Carts bring back fond memories, though, and are retro-cool in their own right. Modern carts are super portable. I keep my DS/3DS & Switch games in cart cases, which goes with the whole portable system thing.

Anyway, I'm not ready to commit to picking one over the other. :lol:
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Postby PunishedSonicSpeed » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:16 am

I prefer carts all the days of my life.

Carts are often to work better even into the worst conditions, included the consoles that used the cartridges.

What I like about discs games is that them are easier to get completed in box and the artbook from the discs can be quite cool.

The only bad thing about the cartridges is that the sticker can get damaged pretty easy.
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Postby FoP » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:19 am

stiggsen wrote:
StormJumper wrote:...
Cart.
3. Can update to them
...

I am relatively sure no current game cards will store any updates in themselves. They are not writeable afaik.
At least my vita and switch games store the updatefiles inside system memory or external sd card.

Am i wrong?



The only exception I can remember was the berry glitch fix in Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire.

I don't see why it wouldn't be possible though, seeing as cartridges can save data to them (at least they used to be, now with the Switch I'm pretty sure all saves are stored in the console memory), so reserving a bit of space for on-cart patches would be neat. Might be that they're too worried of corruption?
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