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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:38 am

Laying all the speculation to rest.

We have been considering raising the price of our releases for a while now. Right after we got our first unexpected fee from the ESRB. We told people we wouldn't raise the price for the foreseeable future unless it became a necessity. It has become necessary now.

We saw an outcry from customers telling us before that they would be fine paying an extra $5 to help with this fee or even back a Kickstarter to get the game rated. I saw the same thing with customers telling SRG (Special Reserve Games) when they said they couldn't do Ruiner.

So ESRB is one reason and yes, price parity is something we want and our developers.

Vita is almost double what PS4 costs to manufacture, Switch is up there too. We've had price parity on Vita and PS4 since we started when in reality it should have been more expensive for Vita. But we had just started and didn't want to come out the gate with a higher price. Now that there are less Vita customers overall worldwide it's become much riskier to print Vita games. Not only do they cost more but there is an ESRB fee that wasn't there before. The Switch is more expensive to produce than PS4 as well. So hence the price change. Our competitors are already asking more than we would have based on the new pricing tier which is $15 over the digital. Take Human Fall Flat, a $15 digital game, we would have sold that for $30 using our new price tier when accounting for ESRB and COGS.

So, in the end, there will be a price increase to not only help with ESRB and COGS but to ensure price parity which is what we had always been doing before.
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Postby Fries » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:46 am

I appreciate the openness, but I have to ask since this statement opens up the question:

If all along you were increasing the price of PS4 games to match Vita production costs, then why do you need to up them again? Maybe Vita releases in the future will need to be higher priced due to ESRB rating costs, but isn't PS4 already inflated then to cover this? From the outside price parity only seems like a good thing on your end, not the consumers'.
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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:50 am

Fries wrote:I appreciate the openness, but I have to ask since this statement opens up the question:

If all along you were increasing the price of PS4 games to match Vita production costs, then why do you need to up them again? Maybe Vita releases in the future will need to be higher priced due to ESRB rating costs, but isn't PS4 already inflated then to cover this? From the outside price parity only seems like a good thing on your end, not the consumers'.


PS4 was not brought up, it was where it was before ESRB costs. Vita, we were taking a hit with every release.

It's no longer acceptable to take a hit on both costs of goods and ESRB costs. We are still making about the same with the $5 increase as we were before. That ESRB cost hurts big time.
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Postby JoeQ » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:51 am

Thanks for explaining.

Can you elaborate what ESRB fee and game you're referring to? Just curious.
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Postby Fries » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:52 am

LimitedRunDouglas wrote:
Fries wrote:I appreciate the openness, but I have to ask since this statement opens up the question:

If all along you were increasing the price of PS4 games to match Vita production costs, then why do you need to up them again? Maybe Vita releases in the future will need to be higher priced due to ESRB rating costs, but isn't PS4 already inflated then to cover this? From the outside price parity only seems like a good thing on your end, not the consumers'.

PS4 was not brought up, it was where it was before ESRB costs. Vita, we were taking a hit with every release.

I apologize, it clearly says this in your post, I just misread.
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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:54 am

JoeQ wrote:Thanks for explaining.

Can you elaborate what ESRB fee and game you're referring to? Just curious.


This is a price increase across the board aside from games where we already told developers what we would sell the game at.
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Postby F-REAL1000 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:56 am

I respect what you guys do its obvious your not in it to get rich. Ive bought all the ps4 releases and will continue to do so. I probably wont be buying both Switch and ps4 versions of the same game but ill always support you guys.
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Postby JoeQ » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:57 am

LimitedRunDouglas wrote:
JoeQ wrote:Thanks for explaining.

Can you elaborate what ESRB fee and game you're referring to? Just curious.


This is a price increase across the board aside from games where we already told developers what we would sell the game at.


No, I got that, I was just wondering if there was some specific problematic game that you were referring to here:
We saw an outcry from customers telling us before that they would be fine paying an extra $5 to help with this fee or even back a Kickstarter to get the game rated.
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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:58 am

JoeQ wrote:
LimitedRunDouglas wrote:
JoeQ wrote:Thanks for explaining.

Can you elaborate what ESRB fee and game you're referring to? Just curious.


This is a price increase across the board aside from games where we already told developers what we would sell the game at.


No, I got that, I was just wondering if there was some specific problematic game that you were referring to here:
We saw an outcry from customers telling us before that they would be fine paying an extra $5 to help with this fee or even back a Kickstarter to get the game rated.


People are angry that we went from $10 over digital to $15. But these same people told us back in the day they were okay with us raising the price.
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Postby myblackamex » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:02 pm

LimitedRunDouglas wrote:Laying all the speculation to rest.

We have been considering raising the price of our releases for a while now. Right after we got our first unexpected fee from the ESRB. We told people we wouldn't raise the price for the foreseeable future unless it became a necessity. It has become necessary now.

We saw an outcry from customers telling us before that they would be fine paying an extra $5 to help with this fee or even back a Kickstarter to get the game rated. I saw the same thing with customers telling SRG (Special Reserve Games) when they said they couldn't do Ruiner.

So ESRB is one reason and yes, price parity is something we want and our developers.

Vita is almost double what PS4 costs to manufacture, Switch is up there too. We've had price parity on Vita and PS4 since we started when in reality it should have been more expensive for Vita. But we had just started and didn't want to come out the gate with a higher price. Now that there are less Vita customers overall worldwide it's become much riskier to print Vita games. Not only do they cost more but there is an ESRB fee that wasn't there before. The Switch is more expensive to produce than PS4 as well. So hence the price change. Our competitors are already asking more than we would have based on the new pricing tier which is $15 over the digital. Take Human Fall Flat, a $15 digital game, we would have sold that for $30 using our new price tier when accounting for ESRB and COGS.

So, in the end, there will be a price increase to not only help with ESRB and COGS but to ensure price parity which is what we had always been doing before.


Transparency (heads ups) is all you can ask for as a customer. Every business has to raise price (I have to do it all the time in my business) so everyone should fully understand.

So everyone is clear this means the min price will be $29.99 for a game by LRG. Some could be higher based on digital price, etc.
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Postby Patr0n » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:04 pm

Well, I haven't bought Human Fall Flat. It was too expensive and I also haven't bought The Flame in the flood for the Switch, it was also too expensive. Your 'previous' pricing model was my exact sweet spot. I'll go and get Kero Blaster on Friday, because I think the price is fair, but if all those 25 USD releases are going to cost 30 USD, and all those 30 USD releases are going to cost 35 USD, it will get too expensive for me and I can't pick up the 'niche' games like Kero Blaster, Aqua Kitty, Rockbosher DX, The Swindle, .. anymore. Even though they are all good games and I really have a heart for these 'smaller' indie games, it's just not affordable anymore.

I get your point though and as it seems, there isn't much you can do about it. Unfortunately if I don't get a salary increase all of a sudden, there isn't much I can do .. :cry:
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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:05 pm

myblackamex wrote:
LimitedRunDouglas wrote:Laying all the speculation to rest.

We have been considering raising the price of our releases for a while now. Right after we got our first unexpected fee from the ESRB. We told people we wouldn't raise the price for the foreseeable future unless it became a necessity. It has become necessary now.

We saw an outcry from customers telling us before that they would be fine paying an extra $5 to help with this fee or even back a Kickstarter to get the game rated. I saw the same thing with customers telling SRG (Special Reserve Games) when they said they couldn't do Ruiner.

So ESRB is one reason and yes, price parity is something we want and our developers.

Vita is almost double what PS4 costs to manufacture, Switch is up there too. We've had price parity on Vita and PS4 since we started when in reality it should have been more expensive for Vita. But we had just started and didn't want to come out the gate with a higher price. Now that there are less Vita customers overall worldwide it's become much riskier to print Vita games. Not only do they cost more but there is an ESRB fee that wasn't there before. The Switch is more expensive to produce than PS4 as well. So hence the price change. Our competitors are already asking more than we would have based on the new pricing tier which is $15 over the digital. Take Human Fall Flat, a $15 digital game, we would have sold that for $30 using our new price tier when accounting for ESRB and COGS.

So, in the end, there will be a price increase to not only help with ESRB and COGS but to ensure price parity which is what we had always been doing before.


Transparency (heads ups) is all you can ask for as a customer. Every business has to raise price (I have to do it all the time in my business) so everyone should fully understand.

So everyone is clear this means the min price will be $29.99 for a game by LRG. Some could be higher based on digital price, etc.


Some of our older titles we have signed may still be cheaper though since we already told the devs what we would sell it for. It really depends on how much that ESRB fee impacts them. We had one dev that got impacted severely and unfairly which is when we came to the decision to start enforcing a new price.
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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:06 pm

Patr0n wrote:Well, I haven't bought Human Fall Flat. It was too expensive and I also haven't bought The Flame in the flood for the Switch, it was also too expensive. Your 'previous' pricing model was my exact sweet spot. I'll go and get Kero Blaster on Friday, because I think the price is fair, but if all those 25 USD releases are going to cost 30 USD, and all those 30 USD releases are going to cost 35 USD, it will get too expensive for me and I can't pick up the 'niche' games like Kero Blaster, Aqua Kitty, Rockbosher DX, The Swindle, .. anymore. Even though they are all good games and I really have a heart for these 'smaller' indie games, it's just not affordable anymore.

I get your point though and as it seems, there isn't much you can do about it. Unfortunately if I don't get a salary increase all of a sudden, there isn't much I can do .. :cry:


You shouldn't need a salary increase if you can hold out for two more months. June is looking like where the slow down should finally hit.
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Postby quini82 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:12 pm

and producing more units would not help?
Super Hydorah could easily sell 1000 or 1500 more copies without problems.
Or with the most popular titles, do the same as with ys.

This is another thing, but also the current frequency of the collector's editions is too high. I buy few, but for those who buy all or almost all an additional increase, it could be problematic.

Sorry for me bad English, but it is an important issue in which we should all have an opinion.
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Postby Fries » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:13 pm

Patr0n wrote:Well, I haven't bought Human Fall Flat. It was too expensive and I also haven't bought The Flame in the flood for the Switch, it was also too expensive. Your 'previous' pricing model was my exact sweet spot. I'll go and get Kero Blaster on Friday, because I think the price is fair, but if all those 25 USD releases are going to cost 30 USD, and all those 30 USD releases are going to cost 35 USD, it will get too expensive for me and I can't pick up the 'niche' games like Kero Blaster, Aqua Kitty, Rockbosher DX, The Swindle, .. anymore. Even though they are all good games and I really have a heart for these 'smaller' indie games, it's just not affordable anymore.

I get your point though and as it seems, there isn't much you can do about it. Unfortunately if I don't get a salary increase all of a sudden, there isn't much I can do .. :cry:

Unfortunately I'm in the same boat, throughout the year the majority of my game purchases are from Limited Run, often with me having to choose between a LRG release and other new game releases. I rarely have the funds to get both, so this $5 increase only cuts into my limited gaming fund even further.

I know there isn't much LRG can do about this, but it really sucks as a consumer and will make it more difficult to justify (or even afford in the first place) purchasing some of the smaller indie titles, because that price difference adds up over time quickly.

LimitedRunDouglas wrote:You shouldn't need a salary increase if you can hold out for two more months. June is looking like where the slow down should finally hit.

You've said releases were going to slow down last Fall, then in December/January, but if anything it was only a momentary reprieve and the schedule got shifted around and continued to be fairly intensive. Are you absolutely certain releases are going to slow down this time?
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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:18 pm

Fries wrote:
Patr0n wrote:Well, I haven't bought Human Fall Flat. It was too expensive and I also haven't bought The Flame in the flood for the Switch, it was also too expensive. Your 'previous' pricing model was my exact sweet spot. I'll go and get Kero Blaster on Friday, because I think the price is fair, but if all those 25 USD releases are going to cost 30 USD, and all those 30 USD releases are going to cost 35 USD, it will get too expensive for me and I can't pick up the 'niche' games like Kero Blaster, Aqua Kitty, Rockbosher DX, The Swindle, .. anymore. Even though they are all good games and I really have a heart for these 'smaller' indie games, it's just not affordable anymore.

I get your point though and as it seems, there isn't much you can do about it. Unfortunately if I don't get a salary increase all of a sudden, there isn't much I can do .. :cry:

Unfortunately I'm in the same boat, throughout the year the majority of my game purchases are from Limited Run, often with me having to choose between a LRG release and other new game releases. I rarely have the funds to get both, so this $5 increase only cuts into my limited gaming fund even further.

I know there isn't much LRG can do about this, but it really sucks as a consumer and will make it more difficult to justify (or even afford in the first place) purchasing some of the smaller indie titles, because that price difference adds up over time quickly.

LimitedRunDouglas wrote:You shouldn't need a salary increase if you can hold out for two more months. June is looking like where the slow down should finally hit.

You've said releases were going to slow down last Fall, then in December/January, but if anything it was only a momentary reprieve and the schedule got shifted around and continued to be fairly intensive. Are you absolutely certain releases are going to slow down this time?


My last comment on slow down was spring/summer and it's falling into that.
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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:18 pm

quini82 wrote:and producing more units would not help?
Super Hydorah could easily sell 1000 or 1500 more copies without problems.
Or with the most popular titles, do the same as with ys.

This is another thing, but also the current frequency of the collector's editions is too high. I buy few, but for those who buy all or almost all an additional increase, it could be problematic.

Sorry for me bad English, but it is an important issue in which we should all have an opinion.


That would only work for certain games where we truly think there is demand. For smaller games printing more units is only going to hurt us in the end.
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Postby quini82 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:40 pm

LimitedRunDouglas wrote:
quini82 wrote:and producing more units would not help?
Super Hydorah could easily sell 1000 or 1500 more copies without problems.
Or with the most popular titles, do the same as with ys.

This is another thing, but also the current frequency of the collector's editions is too high. I buy few, but for those who buy all or almost all an additional increase, it could be problematic.

Sorry for me bad English, but it is an important issue in which we should all have an opinion.


That would only work for certain games where we truly think there is demand. For smaller games printing more units is only going to hurt us in the end.


I get it.
But a price increase could "joder" fuck mainly to small games.
It's complicated, but I want lrg to publish small and large games.
I still want a hellblade but I also want a ninja denki dx, if they are possible.
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Postby stallion1167 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:42 pm

Okay so this is a thought - And this is based on another thread. What would the costs be if you were to, for example, have a patreon like thing, either on your site or using patreon for "x" amount of customers that would handle those costs. So lets say for a $5 monthly fee, it would take "x" (2000) patreons to take care of these costs. And by being a patreon member, you would receive special type treatment or product. Like early access OR priority over previous games before they hit blind box weekend OR priority on other items like the cards.. Is that number maybe $10 per month - not sure if this would work and at the end of the day you would still need to pass along these costs if you do not have enough patreon members... Or heck, charge "x" for each release if you would want early access - "x" being what that extra bump might be. Just a thought..
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Postby shinoff2183 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:47 pm

LimitedRunDouglas wrote:
JoeQ wrote:
LimitedRunDouglas wrote:
JoeQ wrote:Thanks for explaining.

Can you elaborate what ESRB fee and game you're referring to? Just curious.


This is a price increase across the board aside from games where we already told developers what we would sell the game at.


No, I got that, I was just wondering if there was some specific problematic game that you were referring to here:
We saw an outcry from customers telling us before that they would be fine paying an extra $5 to help with this fee or even back a Kickstarter to get the game rated.


People are angry that we went from $10 over digital to $15. But these same people told us back in the day they were okay with us raising the price.




I wanted to point out that in the one thread I only took issue with it seeming a little weird I didnt know there was a whole conversation being explained in another thread. Ive got no problem about the esrb increase. It was just pointed out that the ps4 and switch were the same price and the ps4 version jumped in price from what it normally would have been. While the switch was at the same price as the ps4 it was kinda confusing. Again I didnt know anything about the other thread
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Postby nosaveddata » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 pm

Yeah I agree with what someone said about super hydorah. You guys could have easily sold another 1000 copies.
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Postby joenemesis » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:59 pm

I said before I'd be alright if things were increased due the ESRB, and I still stand behind that. Thanks for the heads up Douglas.
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Postby Turteyz » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:00 pm

Thank you for clearing the air regarding this. It definitely helps explain how the new price on PS4 titles are determined and the new "premium price over digital".

Is there concern that Nintendo COGS may go up? It would just suck to have this pop up again and suddenly the new price is $25 over digital because PS4 owners have to bear the COGS from Nintendo for the sake of price parity.

On the flip side, if you find that Nintendo fans buy in significantly larger droves than PS4/Vita owners, will their stock increase and would that stock increase get to the point where we can actually see a list price reduction?
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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:25 pm

Turteyz wrote:Thank you for clearing the air regarding this. It definitely helps explain how the new price on PS4 titles are determined and the new "premium price over digital".

Is there concern that Nintendo COGS may go up? It would just suck to have this pop up again and suddenly the new price is $25 over digital because PS4 owners have to bear the COGS from Nintendo for the sake of price parity.

On the flip side, if you find that Nintendo fans buy in significantly larger droves than PS4/Vita owners, will their stock increase and would that stock increase get to the point where we can actually see a list price reduction?


I can't see the COGS going up.
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Postby Cperrop » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:49 pm

Would it be possible to get a rough schedule of games (no titles, just numbers) releasing up to the slowdown in June?

Also anything else coming out with Thimbleweed on the 30th?
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Postby ChaosCat » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:53 pm

So with this minimum price increase does this mean the base value of sending in 40 tickets with scale in comparison? So like will it now be $30 off instead of $25 off?
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Postby Patr0n » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:54 pm

I really hope at least this is the case! :?
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Postby DrLight66 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:56 pm

nosaveddata wrote:Yeah I agree with what someone said about super hydorah. You guys could have easily sold another 1000 copies.


Not trying to sound like a snob but this is the 2nd time LRG has slept on the greatness of Locomalito's games. Passed on Cursed Castilla EX which was a terrible decision and didn't seem to think too much of Super Hydorah even though it's not only a great shmup but it's basically Gradius re-incarnated. The Super Hydorah standard edition print was like half of what it should've been.

Anyway, I don't mind the price increases so long as the more obscure and lesser known indies that go for super cheap digitally at least come with some sort of real manual, that's really all I want (which LRG has been including way more often lately which i'm super happy about).
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Postby LimitedRunDouglas » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:04 pm

DrLight66 wrote:
nosaveddata wrote:Yeah I agree with what someone said about super hydorah. You guys could have easily sold another 1000 copies.


Not trying to sound like a snob but this is the 2nd time LRG has slept on the greatness of Locomalito's games. Passed on Cursed Castilla EX which was a terrible decision and didn't seem to think too much of Super Hydorah even though it's not only a great shmup but it's basically Gradius re-incarnated. The Super Hydorah standard edition print was like half of what it should've been.

Anyway, I don't mind the price increases so long as the more obscure and lesser known indies that go for super cheap digitally at least come with some sort of real manual, that's really all I want (which LRG has been including way more often lately which i'm super happy about).


You make it sound like EAS would have done as many units as us when their history shows they do much, much lower.

We still have a Vita version coming too.

Devs wanted to do mostly CE's, I had to convince them to do more standard, but yeah no credit to me.
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Postby bunnybear » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:18 pm

myblackamex wrote:
LimitedRunDouglas wrote:Laying all the speculation to rest.

We have been considering raising the price of our releases for a while now. Right after we got our first unexpected fee from the ESRB. We told people we wouldn't raise the price for the foreseeable future unless it became a necessity. It has become necessary now.

We saw an outcry from customers telling us before that they would be fine paying an extra $5 to help with this fee or even back a Kickstarter to get the game rated. I saw the same thing with customers telling SRG (Special Reserve Games) when they said they couldn't do Ruiner.

So ESRB is one reason and yes, price parity is something we want and our developers.

Vita is almost double what PS4 costs to manufacture, Switch is up there too. We've had price parity on Vita and PS4 since we started when in reality it should have been more expensive for Vita. But we had just started and didn't want to come out the gate with a higher price. Now that there are less Vita customers overall worldwide it's become much riskier to print Vita games. Not only do they cost more but there is an ESRB fee that wasn't there before. The Switch is more expensive to produce than PS4 as well. So hence the price change. Our competitors are already asking more than we would have based on the new pricing tier which is $15 over the digital. Take Human Fall Flat, a $15 digital game, we would have sold that for $30 using our new price tier when accounting for ESRB and COGS.

So, in the end, there will be a price increase to not only help with ESRB and COGS but to ensure price parity which is what we had always been doing before.


Transparency (heads ups) is all you can ask for as a customer. Every business has to raise price (I have to do it all the time in my business) so everyone should fully understand.

So everyone is clear this means the min price will be $29.99 for a game by LRG. Some could be higher based on digital price, etc.

I find myself in complete agreement with you, blackamex.

Thanks for the clarification, Douglas. We may not like the price increases (what customer does?), but they are what they are.
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